programming Siemens Pure for music

[onyaw]

Hoping that someone can offer advice related to programming my Siemens Pure 701 for playing live instruments/music.

My last two sets of DHA have been Siemens and after many visits to nice but far away audi's have been 'good enough' for most of the listening and playing, and really quite nice in my day job which is not music. I recently upgraded to Pure 701 RIC 55 db amp, and excitingly (and excitedly) I finally am in full control of the programming with my instruments close at hand.

The problem I seem to be having is with compression and gain limiters. So I did what someone had suggested to me a couple of years ago, and turned compression off on all bands, turned off all other sound processing programs including feedback (i'm using an open fit dome with no vent) and then set the automatic gain control to max. But the piano is very crackly, i.e. something is limiting some of the frequencies. I set the automatic gain limiter back to where it was (-6 db for most freq's and -3 db for the mid-lows) and it sounds better but still a little unnatural, as if it is compressing or limiting somewhere still. Its worse in the higher octaves; N.b., my acoustic piano is pretty loud and bright.

I don't understand why it is limiting more with compression off and the gain control set to max, than with the gain controls set to -6 db below max. I have heard that one of the annoying things about Siemens DHAs is that there is an undefeatable inaccessible limiter in there somewhere. But somehow i found some decent settings with my previous aids. Unfortunately I don't have immediate access to those settings to get some ideas, but I will try.

I do have the ability with the software to tweak any one of the 16 channels with the equalizer and compression, and the AGC out which control in groups of 4 frequencies, but am unsure where to start - should I turn compression back on and mess around with the 'soft' sounds (expanders) in some frequencies, should I try to tweak gain control or should all further tweaking just be done in the 16 channel equalizer (and what is best to try)?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Wayne

"Wearing hearing aids since 1983"
bilateral thresholds
250 Hz - 30 db
500 - 55 db
1000 - 55 db
2000 - 60 db
4000 - 60 db
8000 - 50 db

[Digital Hearing Care]

Hi Wayne, I haven't supplied much Siemens over the last few years myself, i can't say with my limited experience of Siemens I've heard about this limiter you mentioned deep down in the software. I can't quite work out whether you have any level of audiological experience, my first port of call would be to contact tech support at the manufacturers if I was unsure but I'm sort of getting the idea you arent an audiologist but have somehow got hold of the programming equipment?
If thats the case certainly in the UK the manufacturers are reluctant to talk directly to the general public, and my experience is that when you start to do this sort of drastic adjustments hearing aids tend to do all sorts of funny and unexpected things!
What sort of equipment are you using to program the hearing aids? What version of Connexx are you working with? I take it the audiogram you are working from is recent? Looking at your thresholds I'm not sure open domes are the way to go or are you wearing closed domes / power domes?
If you can supply me this information I'll have a word with siemens and see if they can shed any light....
Regards
Paul

[onyaw]

Dear Paul,

Thanks so much for your reply.  I am actually using closed click domes (i.e. open fitting, but no vent), and not the double domes.  With the closed domes I think that the power will be enough, but I am still evaluating its only been a few days.  If I need to go up in power with the larger receiver, I guess I would need the power domes or get a custom mold.  The Connexx that I bought (quite legally, i believe!) is v6.4.  If it helps, I can probably find the details about Siemens' digital aids have an undefeatable gain limiter (I was told about this personally, but I think I also read this from the same source on HearingReview online magazine in a special issue about hearing aids for musicians).  Thanks in advance if you can take the time to learn more directly.  I do plan to see an audiologist locally, who I assume would be able to do the same, but haven't set it up yet and it probably won't be for a few weeks.  40 days left in my trial period (so I want to try to get things really close before my visit).

I would be glad to message with you off-line to tell you a little bit more about me (not an audiologist, but I am a medical scientist) and why I went 'online' for my purchases this time and why am taking a little more control over my rehab.  If I haven't yet, I'll make sure that my preferences are set that you can find my email.

[onyaw]

Hi Paul,

I did contact Siemens through their website (I used the 'professional' inquiry mode), and when they first replied I came clean re: I am not an audiologist.  But I do have scientific credentials, including in the hearing research area (through one of which I have come to know a former CEO of Siemens), so they were helpful (but they may have been anyway).

They said to stick with their Music program, but to leave compression on and to back-off slowly on the kneepoint and ratio  until it sounds right (rather than to turn off compression completely).  I've been away all week but will try this soon.  I vaguely recall this is what my regular audi had done for my half-shell Artis 2 aids, which had a decent (but not perfect result - we didn't really tweak too much).

But thanks anyway for your offer to help - certainly if you did get some input on this, I am all "ears."

Wayne

[Digital Hearing Care]

Hi Wayne, sorry just noticed you replied to me (twice) before I realised.... I would say the closed domes should be fine and you shouldn't really need to go to powerdomes or custom tips. I have a particular problem with custom tips for the RIC type of hearing aid, just plain old experience that they haven't worked well generally in the past, usually due to a short projection into the ear and movement of the tip in the ear generated by jaw movement.
Open, closed and powerdomes are the way to go for me any day of the week.
My perspective is that if the loss is so severe custom tips are the only way to go maybe an RIC product might not be the best solution anyway. Only my opinion.... the manufacturers seem to want to push these type of products for very severe losses for their own reasons.
However - that's off topic - if you have a channel where you can get some good technical advice I guess you're doing what i would do with a product I wasn't too familiar with myself - ask tech support!
Good luck with it.
regards

Paul